My thoughts about the Denver Snuffer Movement

I believe that Denver Snuffer is a scholar of the scriptures and of LDS church history, and he brings out some things that have been forgotten. I believe many are following Denver Snuffer, yes following him even though they say they are not just like in the LDS church they say they are not following their leaders. But nothing is true till Denver says it himself, I have experienced this myself with the DSites.  People who believe that Jesus is their Messiah and that Joseph Smith was testifying of Him and started the restoration process and that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, but grow up depending on a church and/or leaders to tell them what to do, it is very easy to follow another man after you become to see that the LDS church is not what it says it is.

I think another why Denver Snuffer got so popular is because other popular bloggers decided to follow him, and thus so did their followers. Don’t under estimate the power of blogs. When attending sacrament with those in the Denver movement they would rather talk about the latest blogs than talk about scriptures, and they claimed these blogs were continued revelation.

Denver Snuffer seems to have some focus on the Second Comforter. His book the “The Second Comforter: Conversing with the Lord Through the Veil”, is a good book. I would even recommend it as a good book to start learning about this very important subject. At least Denver talks about it, where in the LDS church it is taboo to ask or talk about. I sadly have not had the Second Comforter experience yet, but I do believe it is possible, and something that the Lord wants us to have while we are in the flesh. It’s all over the scriptures if you ask me, below is one example I have found:

Those who don’t seek the presence of the Lord will be lead into temptations.
3 Nephi 18:25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather HAVE COMMANDED THAT YE SHOULD COME UNTO ME, THAT YE MIGHT FEEL AND SEE; even so shall ye do unto the world; and WHOSOEVER BREAKETH THIS COMMANDMENT SUFFERETH HIMSELF TO BE LED INTO TEMPTATION.
After saying this, Jesus turns to the 12.
3 Nephi 18:26 And now it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words, he turned his eyes again upon the disciples whom he had chosen, and said unto them:

As you can see Denver uses some power imagery. He and his followers also talk about Zion also. (Which I personally believe it will happen after the modern-day exodus.) He and his followers have stated that you don’t need to move to Independence Missouri, and that some have come out and said that it is in Colorado, so if you believe in Zion, it is much easier to go to Colorado than Missouri for many reasons. Continently I believe most of the DSites are in the west so Colorado is much closer.

Also you will heard the Denver Snuffer group talk of visions and revelations they are receiving. I remember many people talking about the visions of heaven they received when they were baptized at Denver’s prompting them to. I do believe in continued revelation from God, but I also believe new revelation will not contradict old revelation as Joseph Smith taught.

One thing I believe people liked is that there is not much focus on the Lord’s commandments. Other than Denver saying you need to follow them on occasion, but I’ve heard many of his followers talk about how we don’t need to follow the commandments. After being among the DSites for a while I started asking what are the commandments that Denver reminds us to follow, never got an answer other than read your scriptures. In the scriptures, the prophet told the people what commandments they were not following in calling them to repentance to bring them back to the Lord. Denver as far as I know never quotes a single commandment that we should follow. (He has brought up the Biblical Holidays recently, but only to say there is no requirement to follow them right now, despite the fact Exodus 12:14 states differently. I believe the Biblical Holidays are a big thing and they are to prepare us for future events including the Second Coming.)

The only commandment I’ve read Denver Snuffer say we need to follow in his tenth lecture is how we need to get a certificate from seven women to be able to do priesthood ordinances outside of your own family. The funny thing about this is that earlier in his ten lecture series he states that no commandments will be give outside of Joseph Smith. And Joseph Smith received commandments regarding this same thing already which is recorded in LDS D&C 20 and how members with the priesthood are recognized, and it included votes from men and women. I don’t honestly understand how having less people vote is better than more? In addition when I used to be in DSites FB groups at least one mentioned how they found scriptural support for what Denver said, but he never shared those scriptures even though multiple people asked to see them, me included.

Denver’s big focus seems to be on knowledge and has come out and said that ignorance is one of the biggest sins. So, if you like on focusing on just studying and not becoming this is great. For me I see the scriptures talk about how you are judged for your works and not your ignorance. Yes I agree knowledge is important, epically the knowledge that what you are doing is acceptable to the Lord, see Lectures on Faith, and the knowledge, not just belief, that Jesus is the Messiah. Most only believe that Jesus is the Messiah, including myself, and do not know this. As I look at scriptures I see many indication including the definition of words that state to know Jesus Christ we must see him and feel his marks.

Denver says he does not want to be the leader of this movement. I acknowledge he says that, but when I look at what he says and does in other situations I believe he does want to be at the head of the movement. Let’s look at a couple examples. His group is calling him the servant and the Mighty and Strong one. And as far as I know he has not corrected them on calling him the servant which is on some official announcements of theirs. In addition when others are doing projects, including the current scripture project, he seems to get involved in it and helps direct it. If he really did not want to be the leader, why not say I will not help. Speaking of the new scriptures, they include a section that shows Denver’s new name from the Lord is David. Do you really thing that has nothing to do with the claim that he is the Mighty and Strong one? I think it has everything to do with that. In Denver’s 10 lectures he brings out the idea that it is his ex-communication that caused the LDS church to lose their priesthood. Considering all the evil deeds the LDS church has done in it’s past, including that I believe that Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith’s murder, Denver Snuffer’s ex-communication is what had the LDS church lose their priesthood? So all the evil deeds the LDS church did before this did not qualify for the end of their priesthood as Denver claims it does for what they did to him? This is so ingrained into their theology that if you received the priesthood from the LDS church after he was ex-communicated then you have to get it from their group, but if you got it before this event you still have priesthood, which if you think about it that makes no sense. How could you still have the priesthood if you had it before that event if it was lost because of that event? And if you still had it, but not the power to give it, does that mean you only partly lost it, but only if you stayed LDS because that same priesthood is able to given to others if you are a DSite, to me it makes no sense and full of holes. On top of that, the fact that it all hinges on how the LDS leaders treated one man and one man only goes against the idea of not esteeming one man/women over another, Mosiah 23:7 … for thus saith the Lord: Ye shall not esteem one flesh above another, or one man shall not think himself above another; … . I have gone to a few get together the DSites had, I have friends who are DSites and I do like meeting with those who believe in Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon, even though I have removed my name from the LDS church I still go to the LDS church when I can. One I went to in Colorado multiple people said that Denver is the servant in Jacob 5, which to me indicates at least they believe he is the leader of this movement. Here is my last point about Denver being the leader or not, it is a bit speculative but it makes sense to me. I have not been to any of Denver’s talks, I have listened to some after the fact. And in many if not all of them he always brings up how he is busy and is not able to stay and visit with the people. An interesting thing that many leaders do who don’t want to be seen as equals with those whom they lead is not to let the people see them as one of them, but they want to be seen as distant, something special, and when you get to know someone you don’t seem so special anymore, you are seen as human, because they come to know your flaws and start to not trust your every word anymore. In addition, we will recognize Jesus Christ because we will be like him. When Jesus came to the Lehites in 3 Nephi 11 and proceeding chapters he had things he was told to do by the Father to do, which I would say that means they were important. But before he did those things the Father commanded him to do, he spent time with everyone that was there. Even though Jesus was busy, Jesus took the time for everyone to talk with him and touch him, vs with Denver Snuffer he has never stayed as far as I know to spend time with the people.

Denver states that he is being visited by angels and are teaching him, and that he does not what to publish those events because of worry people will follow him, which I find silly because people are following already and the BoM has many examples of publishing those types of events to others. In addition we is asking us to use his words rather than the words that were delivered to him by the angels that are supposedly teaching him. See Mosiah 27:32, 35, 37; Alma 15:11; Helaman 5:48, 50; 3 Nephi 11:41; 3 Nephi 27:1, 23; Alma 22:27.

I am still learning the scriptures, but I am not going around telling people that angels are teaching me things as Denver Snuffer is doing and then continually changing my opinion on thing as Denver Snuffer does. The biggest thing I know of that Denver Snuffer goes back and forth on is polygamy. Denver has even changed his mind after he published his book “Passing the Heavenly Gift” which he claims angels helped him write and he talks about polygamy in it. I believe Denver is changing his opinions on other subjects also, but this is the biggest one that I know of. In this book he says Joseph Smith practiced polygamy but in is Plural Marriage Lecture given after that book was published he said Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy but was practicing the Law of Adoption. I find it interesting to note that Denver has a modified LDS D&C 132, section mainly about polygamy, in the new proposed scriptures that says polygamy was commanded by the Lord at times. Which contradicts some very plain statements in the BoM, see Jacob 1:15, Jacob 2:23-24, Jacob 2:27, and Jacob 3:5. I am well aware of Jacob 2:30, I’ve had a witness from God that it teaching against polygamy and since this witness I have come across this blog that explains it very well and analyzing what the various words are referring to, http://myfamilyconversation.blogspot.com/2015/06/entry-34-be-true-to-your-wife.html . I am sad to say I would not be surprised at some point that Denver comes out and say that the Lord told him to start practicing polygamy himself, I hope I am wrong as I feel it is abomination to the Lord, but I would not be surprised. On a side note sadly the state of UT is one of the states with the highest porn rate, I honestly believe it is because of the LDS church and break offs false tradition of polygamy and the fact that they are not owning up to it being false. Polygamy is a big subject, but I’ll say one last thing on it, LDS D&C 132 contradicts the BoM on other points than polygamy.

Although Denver Snuffer does say things at times I agree with, I believe he also contradicts some very plain scriptures also. One example I have written about is the Order of Baptisms. Denver uses an obscure verse in Helaman 5 to state the order of baptism of water and fire does not matter, the fact that dissenters were baptized by fire. But if you look into the word dissenters it is saying that they were members and thus baptized by water. He is even ignoring other scriptures that plainly state baptism of water comes first. I wrote a post about if you want to read more about it https://seekingyhwh.com/2016/10/07/baptisms-order/ . Alma teaches everyone is taken back to God when they die the good and evil. DS says we might get lost returning back to God after we die. Alma teaches we are taken to God vs DS says we have to find our own way back to God. Alma 40:11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. Compared to what Denver Snuffer says about the subject. When you leave here, one of the obligations you have is to find your way back. In finding your way back, you need to be able to avoid those spirits who seek to bring you back into captivity.39 If you’re brought back into captivity, you may find yourself again in a Telestial kingdom, or, as the temple narrative puts it: “the world in which you presently reside.” DS Lecture 8 Transcript – A Broken Heart and Contrite Spirit pg 14. Here is another one of Denver Snuffer’s contradictions, We tend to view the Book of Mormon as a “basic” version of doctrine, because we all know there are sealed portions yet to be revealed. However, I think that attitude is wrong. Everything in the sealed portion is already in the book we have in front of us. But to find it we must look more carefully at the text than we generally do.” ~DS Blog: 2 Nephi 29:8; August 11, 2010. Book of Mormon does not have the history of the whole world as the Book of Mormon says the sealed portion will have.

This one I just found silly that people believe him on. At one of his talks Denver states at the talk that the bad weather that was happening is a sign from God that He is with Denver. The bad I find disturbing is what is preventing from anyone saying the same thing at a talk with bad weather, and as far as I know he never disclosed this sign before hand as is what is done in scriptures. Prophets disclose signs in the heaves before they happen, see Samuel the Lamanite for one example.

Denver has also spoken on a subject of what some people call the Polar Configuration. Denver has stated that the Lord has told him were Kolob from the Book of Abraham is located but the Lord has not given him permission to disclose it and goes off about how it is some distant location. That just is not the case. Anthony Larson has done extensive research on this subject, and I agree with him on his general premise, so much so I helped him with a series of lectures for a time https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwlu8RdjcrVrOlnLtCNdX_fgIcSZpEFJm and helped run his FB group https://www.facebook.com/groups/MormonProphecy/ . For those who are familiar with Hugh Nibley, Anthony’s research makes Hugh Nibley make so much sense. I am also the one that found the Son of Man image on top of the LDS Conference center that he used to have as the group wall picture, I first saw it reading an anti-LDS blog which I found very biased, but I saw a picture of the roof of the conference center and I recognized it instantly. The same imagery is in the water fountain in the Conference center also. Anthon and I have parted ways because his being an apologetic to an extent to favors his LDS followers and I knowing the LDS church being in apostasy and not keeping my mouth shut has gotten between us. I still believe in the general premise of what he is doing and that this truth brings much understand to the scriptures. A few quick examples for you. Alma 30:44 all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator. Regular form is a very interesting phase. And then this one. I was studying about Alma’s conversion. And came across this great scripture about the Polar Configuration and the second coming of Jesus Christ. Mosiah 27:11 And as I said unto you, as they were going about rebelling against God, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto them; and he descended as it were in a cloud; and he spake as it were with a voice of thunder, which caused the earth to shake upon which they stood; Someone descended (I believe it was Jesus Christ for various reasons not completely sure something that I need to look into more) – Mars descended. I believe plasma looks like a cloud – “as it were in a cloud”. Voice of thunder – thunder is happens because of electrical activity. Electronic Universe Model teaches us that earth quakes are caused by electrical activity – “thunder”, electrical activity, “which caused the earth to shake upon which they stood”.

The new scripture project that Denver is part of I find lacking also. I do like how they have fixed LDS D&C 89 that brings out that we should eat meat sparing all the time by removing the comma that was added in 1921. I believe the BoM teaches the same thing and here is a post of mine with scriptures I have found regarding eating meat sparing all the time, https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/04/30/bom-verse-regarding-eating-meat-sparingly-all-the-time/ . In a blog post Denver has sated some things he believes regarding this new scripture project one that no one before was given the covenant of the BoM and two that it is needed to go have a covenant. I don’t agree with either. For one lets look at a statement from Joseph Smith, [Joseph Smith] closed by referring to the Mormon Bible, which he said, contained nothing inconsistent or conflicting with the Christian Bible, and he again repeated that all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved. – Words of Joseph Smith – Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 563-564). Packard Technologies. Kindle Edition. To me Joseph Smith is saying we don’t even need the Book of Mormon, but the focus should be on following God’s commandments. I believe in the Book of Mormon but I believe the focus of scriptures is to get people to go to God themselves see Lectures on Faith 2:56. And I also believe when God teaches people commandments it’s the same ones that are in the scriptures because God does not contradict Himself. On the part about the BoM has never been given as a covenant  to a group of people I’d reference D&C 84: 57. D&C 84:57 to me says a group was already given the BoM covenant, as it says remember covenant and BoM all together, and remember is something that is already given, not something that will be given in the future. D&C 84:57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— I also don’t agree with the fact that the new scriptures are saying children don’t need to be baptized to partake of the sacrament because 3 Nephi 18 states that you need to be baptized and repenting to partake of the sacrament,  3 Nephi 18:5 unto all those who shall believe and be baptized in my name, 11 And this shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name, 30 and if it so be that he repenteth and is baptized in my name, then shall ye receive him, and shall minister unto him of my flesh and blood.

Denver has said that the Lord told him that women should not have the priesthood now. But that is different than what happened while Joseph Smith was alive. In the D&C before LDS church changed it, it said that Emma was ordained. In addition the LDS essay brings out how women had the priesthood while Joseph Smith was alive, https://www.lds.org/topics/joseph-smiths-teachings-about-priesthood-temple-and-women?lang=eng . Here is one example of women healing people in the BoM and how is healing done but without God’s power the priesthood. Abish, a women, healed the queen by touch, and then the queen just converted heals her husband the king, Alma 19:29, 30. Look at Mosiah 27:19-23 were the same thing happened Alma the younger. And if you look, the priests fasted that Alma may receive strength to his body, aka be healed. So we see from using the scriptures, that the Abish did heal the queen, and then the queen heals the king.

I have seen what I would term strange doctrines pop up in the Denver movement. For starters, people believing that their inspiration trumps scriptures. And using misunderstood scriptures to prove that. To show one example of a scripture being construed to prove this. Is Nephi and Laban. There are multiple things to remember with this event. First, Nephi was told to slay Laban. In Hebrew, the commandment is thou shalt not murder, as opposed to the English version of thou shalt not kill. The little change makes a world of difference. Second, Laban had falsely accused him of being a robber and a thief and had pronounced the judgment of death. Then, in an ironic twist, he himself became a robber and thief. As such “judge not lest ye be judged” was enacted upon his own head. Not to mention the punishment in the scriptures for the acts that Laban did against Nephi and his brothers. God didn’t command Nephi to break the commandments, he commanded Nephi to exact righteous punishment on the head of Laban. under the Law of Moses, the penalty for falsely accusing your neighbor, combined with theft and attempted murder, was death. Now I don’t believe all the strange doctrines are coming from Denver but I do believe some of them are. But because of these strange doctrines one has to be careful and test everything that is being taught to the scriptures, like the Corinthians did with Paul. One example at least once there was a guy going among privately with people talking about we should be meditating about Jesus putting fairy dust on us to make us feel better. I personally heard that with my own ears from a guy after having sacrament at a friends house. In addition I also believe there are people in the movement who are only there to deceived others. I and some of my friends have seen other strange activities happening in the Denver movement, one of my friends will refer to the Denver movement by Mormon Woodstock, being funny and serious at the same time. On one doctrine I’ve had DSites that the words in the BoM don’t mean what the 1828 dictionary http://webstersdictionary1828.com/ states that they mean to get it to fit what they wanted.